From creating intimate, wellness-focused spaces to balancing luxury with real-life functionality, Philippa Sale shares her approach to designing interiors that nurture both the senses and the soul. In this conversation, Philippa discusses how she navigates the challenges of transparent pricing, personalisation, and the evolving demands of the luxury market.
On her design philosophy: “We don’t just design spaces, we help clients unravel their own tastes. Real-life design is about understanding how people truly live, not just creating pretty pictures.”
On transparency in pricing: “We believe in keeping it straightforward. Clients always know what they’re paying for from trade discounts to our time managing logistics. It’s about trust, and ensuring there are no hidden surprises down the line.”
On the role of AI in design: “AI is great for refining ideas and saving time. But let’s face it, AI can't feel the space, appreciate the light, or understand the subtle nuances of the client’s needs like we can.”
On the future of intimacy-centered design: “I’d like to think intimacy-focused design stays niche for now, but it’s certainly entering the wider conversation. People are realising that sensual, private spaces don’t need to be labelled, and can be integrated into everyday living.”
On the challenges of the luxury market: “Luxury used to be about exclusivity. Now it’s about how long you can wait for a bespoke sofa. Clients want instant gratification, but the reality is that true luxury, the kind that’s custom-made takes time. And it’s rarely as Instagrammable as they’d like.”
On the divide in client expectations: “Younger clients demand luxury, but they’re often swayed by trends they’ve seen on social media. Older clients, on the other hand, are looking for timeless, functional pieces. It’s a delicate balancing act."
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Book Your VisitImke Du Toit
Welcome to the FCI London podcast where we sit down with some of London's most influential luxury designers to explore the stories and inspiration behind their work. I am your host, Imke Du Toit, and today I'm joined by none other than Philippa Sale, founder and creative director of Flipper Interiors, an Oxfordshire based studio known for its thoughtful, practical and beautifully tailored design work.
Since launching her business in 2012, Philippa has worked across residential, commercial and investment-focused projects, bringing a unique blend of creativity, hands-on property experience and an eye for both functional and stylish design. Her approach is grounded, client-focused, and driven by real-world usability, making her one of the most versatile designers in the industry. Philippa, it's really lovely to have you here today. Welcome to the FCI London podcast.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Thank you very much. I'm very, very touched to be invited. Thank you.
Imke Du Toit
It's only a pleasure. So Philippa, we're just going to jump straight in and I'm going to start by looking at the designer behind the studio. What's the one belief you've had to unlearn to become the designer you are today?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Well, one of the things that I'd really learned quite early on that I shouldn't push my style on clients. I know a lot of interior designers have very specific designs and styles, and that's why some people go to them, but that's not us. So what we really wanted to do and what we've created in Flipper Interiors is helping clients to find their own style. And we...
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
We do that by doing a colour psychology questionnaire with them and start a psychology session. And we really get to understand them. We listen to everything that they love and they need. And then we design the house around them, which is much more important to me.
Imke Du Toit
That's amazing.
Absolutely. No, I think that's exceptional. Having a little bit of a, like you said, a psychology session, getting to know your clients in and out, what they like, what they dislike, and really finding, I think, the soul of that person. I know Intimate Spaces is a business very few designers would dare to start. What pushed you to create a studio that openly blends sensuality, wellbeing, and interiors?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Yes, so we have Flipper Interiors as our vanilla business, the reason we call it, but we recently set up our spicy business, Intimate Spaces. And Intimate Spaces is more about creating a beautiful, sensual space for women to play in, preferably in their home, also for hotels as well. But they're not dungeons. They're not overtly sex rooms. They're beautiful, sensual environments that stimulate all the senses.
There's a massive gap in the market. We're actually the only people in the country doing this. So our clients are worldwide. They're not just UK based because there aren't many people doing it. And it's all about honoring women and their sexuality and basically getting them to reconnect with their partners. Because I feel that at certain stages in women's lives that we disconnect with our loved ones and our intimacy and our sexuality and I wanted to create a space that helped reignite that again in people and um funnily enough all the men I speak to think it's a wonderful idea as well as the women so um it's a win-win situation for everyone.
Imke Du Toit
Wonderful.
Yes, no, absolutely. I think that's really... really incredible and finding a very different niche in the market that, as you say, is very important. I think life is so incredibly busy that we lose sight of that and lose track of that. So I think that's quite incredible creating those spaces where you can reconnect, as you say, and being the only people in the business doing it is really fantastic. If the entire interior industry were forced to work with transparent pricing, would it elevate the profession or expose the cracks of it?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Good elevate the profession. In fact, we already do it already and we always have done. So in our proposals that we do, we already have a page dedicated to what we do with procurement. So if we get a trade discount, we offer our clients up to 10 % on the retail value. If we don't have a trade discount, which is quite rare, to be honest, we then just add a 50 % markup. But our clients know this. And then
Imke Du Toit
Yeah.
Okay.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
This extra cost is just literally covers the admin, the running costs and the problems that happen because things do break, they get delivered, things do need returning. So it just covers our time to help cover anything that goes wrong. So we have software which we use called Programmer, which is fantastic. It shows these markups, it shows discounts, it shows the sale prices and everything clearly on it. So it's always visible to the client and
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Yeah, I mean, sometimes we do get a really good trade discount with some clients with some trades at 40%. So we do make a bit more money on it, but sometimes we only get 10%. So it swings around about.
Imke Du Toit
I think that's also fantastic. Like you said, as well as the client always is aware, it's always transparent and sort of is that joint collaboration, making sure everyone's on the same page, which is great.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
There is one problem we're coming across though. Some suppliers now are giving membership prices to their clients. So I won't name names, but it means they're undercutting us. So there's a couple of really big furniture companies out there that we love to use, but they're trading.
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
Thank you.
Mm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
is the same as the membership price and the client only has to pay about 200 pounds to get that membership price. So then our client goes, well, we don't need you. We'll go and buy it directly from them.
Imke Du Toit
Okay.
I can imagine that can be quite challenging. And then how do you deal with that? Being able to swing your clients to still work with you. I have you had to adjust? I mean, speaking before, you said that you have to adjust your pricing or your positioning or processes to justify your value in the market. But do you think you needed to do that because the market's increasingly commoditized by Pinterest, AI, and influencers?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Hmm.
Yes, I would say that because of this, sometimes we're spending less time and we're spending a bit more time. So what we've done is we've embraced these tools. They've really helped the business and sometimes they really helped me speed up things. So for example, Pinterest, love it. I get my clients to send me all their Pinterest boards, especially like if I'm doing a young teenager's bedroom or something like that.
Imke Du Toit
Yeah.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
biggest Pinterest boards you've ever had. And it's wonderful. Yeah, it's great fun. So I say, share me share my your Pinterest boards with us.
Imke Du Toit
can imagine.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
We use it as a visual data storage. So as we're going along, looking for things for clients, so maybe we're looking for light. So we'll just put a whole load of lights in us in a Pinterest pin, which is all about lighting. And then we then we then share the boards as well with the clients and go, are we on track?
Imke Du Toit
Cheers.
Yeah.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Is this the kind of thing you're looking for? So it's a brilliant source and software. So it's essential now to our process. AI, of course, who doesn't love AI? He helps refine my thoughts. He helps me tag the bad men. He's actually my other boyfriend. We're having a relationship and I love him very dearly. Yes, I mean, it's so useful.
Imke Du Toit
Yeah.
Fantastic.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
The visualization side, I don't feel they're there yet for me and for what we do. But say for example, I'm really struggling to find a picture of a cabinet that we're going to design for the client and there's nothing out there. It's unique. I can ask AI to try and render it and we can get a look and then we'll take it into Photoshop and add the knobs and
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely.
Mm. Mm.
Yes.
Okay.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
The finishes that we want. So it does save us time. So that's really useful. And then influences.
Well, they're good for us in the end of the day, aren't they? We follow them, we learn from them, we get promoted by them. So they're all new tools to enhance what we offer and we don't replace, they don't replace our expertise. And they're just part of the problem solving thing, aren't they? They're part of project management. They can't do project management. They can't create the spaces. They can't work in real life.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
And they don't understand our clients, but they're just useful tools.
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Absolutely. They're just to obviously enhance the processes as well, you said, as well, creating a little bit more of time, time management and efficiency. And we have to get used to it. AI is here. I mean, the life of AI is, you know, vastly and rapidly growing and we just, and social media and connecting in that sort of space. So it's wonderful to know that you've embraced it as well and using it as the tools that it is to create.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Thank you.
I do a lot of courses on AI and I'm constantly learning. Always trying to learn about new softwares. And I heard about Crystal No. And basically you can drop, can send it to your client's LinkedIn profile and it can come back to you and tell you everything about your client and if they're a right fit for you. So I think it's
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
That's incredible actually, just it thanks to the instrument that.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Now I'm just going to move on a little bit to the craft. I mean, and the industry and the truth behind luxury interior designers and luxury interiors. I mean, how do you feel when a client compares your services to a budget AI tool?
Or Instagram inspiration.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
So for our Flipper Interiors business, which is our vanilla business, we often do a lot of cabinetry, built-in stuff. So it's quite common, bars, bookcases, media units. For Intimate Spaces, slightly different because everything is very bespoke made because we're actually considering cabinetry that holds intimate toys.
Imke Du Toit
Tool.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
So that they can be charged, ready to go. Wall hung cabinets to display whips and floggers like
And also, you know, when you're designing furniture for an adult playroom, you want everything to fit the size of the person and for them to be comfortable and the height and the weight. So when you're designing some tendrils crosses and swings and intimate shades is a spanking stores. You really want them to really be comfortable because actually, they need comfort and safety.
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
And if they want pain, should be directed exactly where they want it, not from the badly made furniture. So our process is we basically get samples made first to test construction and comfort. We collaborate always with every maker that we're working with. And they love that. They'll come back to us and say, have you thought about this? Have you considered this? We'll work with them. We don't dictate. It's very much a process of
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Growing and testing. But they love our attention to details because we're really into that. And they love the fact that we come up with something unique and designed specifically to make somebody happy. And then we have people that will install all of these that especially know about hard points. So for something, if something's being hung on the ceiling, you need to make sure the ceiling is strengthened and everything like that.
And then all the fabrics we use are wonderfully practical. They don't just look beautiful and feel amazing. They're actually wipe cleanable as well. So functionality and beauty for real life, not just for photos is what we say.
Imke Du Toit
That's it for you.
No, absolutely. I would absolutely agree and everything needs to be bespoke and custom made to that person as you said as well with very, you know, specifics, personal specifics as well, which is fantastic. Do you think intimacy centered design will remain a niche trend or will it shape mainstream residential design over the next decade, let's say?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Well, for me, I hope it stays for a niche for a while, I think everything to do with sexuality is getting more open at the moment. People are talking more about it. There's much more openness about people's pleasure. I think it won't mean that people will necessarily have dedicated playrooms. I mean, we do these mostly for high-end clients and hotels, but it doesn't mean that you can't make your bedroom and your bathroom
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
A little bit more sexy, you can have better lighting control, you can make the room more of a place to worship in, if you know what I mean, rather than a dumping ground for your washing and the ironing. And it's about saving that space and having mood lighting, candles, beautiful fabrics, when you come to the room that the bed's made,
Imke Du Toit
And
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
After.
And understanding that for a man to be able to help inspire his partner to be aroused, the room has to be a certain way. We don't particularly like it when there's a pile of washing or ironing on the floor. It's not really conducive to being turned on sometimes. So I think what's happening is gradually, and also again, the privacy and intimacy,
It's about concerning of sound and things like that. So we work with sound installation as well. So the conversation is all about well-being, self-care, opening doors, opening, talking about it, then also becoming, intimacy becoming part of the conversation, talking about it, not hiding it away, but opening both doors.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely.
And I think a lot of people I still find are not that open to talk about. I'm glad that people are starting to talk about it because they should. It's part of everyday life and it should be something that is comfortable. Like you say, create a space where you can feel the most comfortable and vulnerable and sensual within that space. And it's wonderful that
You create those moments and those spaces and every little detail is, you know, taken into consideration to be able to create that feeling and that emotional space.
And I'm now going to jump into something a little bit of a fun element. It's a little bit of different kinds of questions. So I'm going to just quickly follow one, a design cliche you'd happily find people to use if you had a design cliche.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
There's so many. Where do I start? I know. You know those signs where they have live, laugh, love, or all those signs that sort of tell you what to, mass produce signs, which they tell you what to do. You shouldn't be instructed on how to live your life. I mean, they were fun when they first came out, but no.
Imke Du Toit
We are awake.
Yeah.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
I'm putting one of those up, especially if I just find and that went up on the wall. I think I'd have to walk out of the house very quickly.
Imke Du Toit
Noted. But yes, no, I think I do agree. I mean, it was a big thing when it first, the massive trend when it came out.
Okay, one thing you wish every new designer knew one day.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Can I say two?
Imke Du Toit
Or knew on day one. So one thing you wish every new designer knew on day one.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
I've got two ones because I want to, but I would say the most important one is listening. It's just if I know to listen rather than just come out with the answers straight away, just listen. Have to.
Imke Du Toit
Okay.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
But there is one other thing I want to add. Make sure you get your contracts and payment terms sorted out on day one. You're running a business. Protect yourself.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely. Very important.
I think those are two really, really great points you're making: listening and making sure that your contracts and terms and conditions are completely ironed out. No, absolutely. Okay. If you had 10 seconds to change the industry's mindset, what's that message? It's a bit of a different
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
This one might be controversial, this one. Stop designing for Instagram. Stop designing for Instagram. Start designing for real life, please.
Imke Du Toit (15:26)
Yes,
We wanted to see the designs come to life and not just sit on a social platform. No, I think I agree with you on that one.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces (15:38)
Yeah. I mean, these younger people think that that's what they can get as well. And they've got terrible FOMO that they don't have a house like this. They don't have this. And, you know, need a bit more realism.
Imke Du Toit (15:44)
Mm.
Yes.
Hmm, sure. If you could redesign any historic monument in the world, which one would you choose?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces (15:58)
Well, one of my favourite buildings is Buckingham Palace and I had the absolute pleasure to go there once to a garden party of the Duke of Edinburgh Award. And it's amazing and the ceiling heights are incredible and the artwork, I mean, you're literally around some of the most famous artists' work everywhere. And then you look down and the carpets were a little bit tatty and
Imke Du Toit (16:05)
Boom.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces (16:23)
Torn at the edges and the wallpaper's a little bit tired and faded and it's this real faded grandeur and the chairs are really uncomfortable as well and there's so much artwork on the wall that you can't see that that's a Rembrandt because it's crowded with other Rembrandts around it or other designs and you're thinking
Imke Du Toit (16:23)
Mm.
Mm. Mm.
Clean wash
Yeah.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
I mean, of course it wouldn't be the state rooms that you would redesign, but maybe the private family quarters. It would be lovely to give them comfort and practicality and put one beautiful big picture so that they can actually really admire it. So it sings in its space and then go back and find some of the old beautiful...
Imke Du Toit
So.
Yes.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Fabrics and wallpapers and work with them.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely lovely. That would be a phenomenal project. So maybe. You know, maybe one day using.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Yes, would be. I think also they
Could do the playroom as well.
Imke Du Toit
I think you should write to them and see what they say.
Let's move into a little bit talking about trends and clients and where the industry is really heading. I younger clients prioritize sustainability and practicality.
Well, the older clients lean towards investment luxury. Which group is currently reshaping your workflow the most and why?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
So for me, I don't think this divide is, I think this divides more talk than reality in my personal experience because lots of younger clients do talk about sustainability, but they, you know, in the whole time I've been working in 15 years, I've never been asked apart from one time with paint colors for sustainable materials, for products that are eco-friendly.
Imke Du Toit
Second.
Yes.
Hmm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Or haven't traveled too far or anything like that. Any client, any agent, never been asked for it. So, no, so they talk about it, but it hasn't actually come out.
Imke Du Toit
Never been asked. Do you think perhaps
Expect that it would just be sustainable materials that are being used? Perhaps if maybe they don't bring it in, it's quite strange. You would think they would have asked if they talked about it.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
I would know
It's the usual the priority is what's the price? Can I get it tomorrow? And is it going to fit? Those are like the top three things. Yeah, sustainable. I've always I mean, I know where things come from. I can research it. I often do choose from suppliers that I would say were more ethically
Imke Du Toit
Excellent.
Sure.
Hmm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Line with our values, but I wouldn't say that my clients have actually specified it. Yeah. And then regarding my older clients, they tend to prioritize practicality. So they've lived with pets and children. They know things get ruined easily and they want white cleanable fabrics. They want bleach cleanable carpet. They want things that are going to last and luxury can be included in that. But I'd actually say luxury was more the sort of
Imke Du Toit
Sure
Hmm.
Hmm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Desire of the younger people because of Instagram and because of what we spoke about earlier with all the people talking on socials about you should have a home like this. So they have this thing for the luxury brands where I'd say my more older clients are more to do with value for money and something that's really good and classical and lasts for a long time. So
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
No.
Yes. Yes.
Bye.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Yeah.
Imke Du Toit
I guess you're talking about
Expectations and realistic expectations, as you were saying, as well as the younger clients. Expectations aren't always as realistic as they maybe compare it to obviously older clients who have, as you said, family and pets and kids and looking to rather make a valuable investment that lasts a long time rather than the younger generation wanting everything now and quickly and on a silver platter exactly what they saw.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
And also with the luxury items, the younger people are more likely to say, yeah, I'm happy to have a green sofa. And where my older clients will go, I'm never having a green sofa. That's like the worst thing I could ever have. We're not having a green sofa. But what we do with our color psychology questionnaire is that we really understand what people's understand.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
They like, what colors make them happy, what textures make them happy, what's important to them. And the question is, do, we give them an idea of budgets for each room and they come back to us and you know, all my clients are budget conscious. It doesn't matter whether they live in a half a million house or a 15 and a half million pound apartment in London.
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
Yes. Yes, you need to be a special investment. As conversations around sexuality and wellbeing become more open globally, do you think interior designers need new ethical guidelines when designing personal spaces?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
But it's not a...
Yeah.
Yes, I think they do. I think when we do our proposals for our intimate spaces clients, we'd say to them, you know, everyone that works on this project and comes in on the site will sign an NDA. You know, it's really important. We try to create environments where clients feel really comfortable, really safe with us. I'm very open.
But what I do do with my intimate spaces clients is that I get them to speak to a sex coach or a intimacy coach. And they can then really talk openly and then she can share with me anything they've allowed us to share. Just stays within the design team. But that's usually to do with designing their room. We design, they've said, you know, we've never tried this.
Imke Du Toit
Cool.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
We'd love it if Philippa could make some furniture to try that. So we do this sort of secrecy bubble going and safety and security, because, you know, when you're opening up to this sort of thing, you are very vulnerable and it comes with a responsibility. So, yeah, that's really important and then we have practical things where we, we try to take care on site, who goes on site, who's building installation.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm, mm.
Okay.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
And prefer to have maybe older people working on these projects who understand that, that aren't going to take photographs and share it on socials and everything. When it comes to building these kinds of rooms, some of our clients don't actually want anyone to know that that room is there. So we do total sound proofing for the room and we do hidden doors as well. So Murphy doors where you can, it looks like a cupboard or a picture or something like that.
Imke Du Toit
Thank you.
Yes.
Okay. Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Just slides away and then inside your little secret room. So, yeah, we try to keep it as private and, but some people are quite happy. Everybody's different. So, yeah, it's good. But yeah, but with the industry, I think,
Imke Du Toit
It's slotted
Okay.
Yes. No, I think that's... No continue.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
It would be good if people could start opening up about these things, not giggling about it, that it's now starting to become a bit normal. So yeah, so maybe we need an ethical framework for designing private spaces for sensitivity and discretion. So, yeah.
Imke Du Toit
So.
I agree and I think it's, it's definitely needed, you know, as you said, making sure that the design team does sign those non-disclosure agreements, you know, making sure that the client's privacy still stays private. And I can imagine that it really is top priority as well, because you said making the clients feel safe, making them feel comfortable and.
You know, as you said, hopefully it will get to a point where everyone's a lot more comfortable and open to talk about it or to work on projects like this as well without.
As you said, giggling or taking photos of it or making clients feel uncomfortable because they are, you know, openly exploring new spaces within their own homes.
So I think that's fantastic that you and your team do make sure that that is the top priority when working with your clients.
I'm going to swing a little bit back again to AI and technology. I know it's always one of those conversations, but I mean, are you concerned or excited about AI tools being used for visualization and layout planning or even color palette generation?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
I'm excited. I mean, what's not to love about it all. It's just, I mean, I'm very lucky. I belong to a business coaching team and we regularly have updates on what's new in AI. Because I don't want to be left behind. I mean, you know, if I get left behind,
Imke Du Toit
So.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
You know, what's going to happen? So I think they're going to be brilliant for visualizing for me. I think we're going to be able to get almost photographic real images. So my clients will be able to stand better, probably getting videos. But I think you still have to give it the information to be able to do it. So we still have to as humans feed monster.
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Wonderful for people that don't have the budgets. So anyone that would love to work with an interior designer and can't, that's going to be fabulous for them because they will be able to do so much in their own home. And I'm really pleased for people like that because, you know, why should we all only the rich people have interior designers?
We'll solve problems faster. But they can't still visit the space, understand how it feels, see the light moving through the day, calm the clients when they're
Sort out the builders, make judgment calls when things go wrong, and the builder goes, sorry, we've got to take that wall down. So it's just enhancing what we do, not replacing it.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Yes.
But I do agree it's really lovely to also see you being so energized and excited about what it's going to offer moving forward. And I really hope people do jump in on that as well. Because as you said, these tools are really there to enhance and to help and then you get to create.
More projects because you can create projects quicker, your clients have a little bit more of a better idea of what they can see before it is created within real time. So it's really wonderful to see that you are excited about how AI and technology is going to start moving within this interior design world.
If you could say what are the five irreplaceable human skills you think AI will never replicate? I mean, I know that we've touched on quite a few of them already, but if you had to think of really the top five irreplaceable human skills.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Stephanie's spatial awareness. And that is one of the skills that I know I have in bucket loads. Reading people. Actually really reading facial expressions. When I do my color psychology with clients, I actually watch their faces as we're doing it. And so I'm writing down things and when I'm asking them questions, I'm noting that, ah, he doesn't like that. Okay, that's, we'll keep.
Imke Du Toit
Come on.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Problem solving in, real time problems. I mean, when I think, you know, when the builder calls you up and says, okay, this happened today, actually, toilet you, you chose to have a wall hung toilet. We can't have it now because the wall's not going to be able to do this and the client wants it to be cheaper. What toilet do you want? You know, so it, and then relationship management really that's one to one relationship.
Imke Du Toit
Bye.
You
Absolutely.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
With the builders, with the decorators, the plumbers, with the client, everyone, with their dog. You know, and then the one thing that I don't think AI will ever be able to do is know when to break the rules.
Imke Du Toit
I definitely went to just bend it and change direction very quickly.
Do you think top design schools are adapting fast enough to prepare the next generation of designers for tech-led futures?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Well, interesting enough, actually had an intern work with us this summer. So she was with us for a month and actually she was fabulous. So I actually hired her for the whole summer actually and cried when she left. She was actually I felt she was very good on her tech and her software and being up to date with everything there. Absolutely fantastic. The problem I found was
Imke Du Toit
Cool.
Hmm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Being a high-end company that works often to buying high-end purchase. She had no reference to how to buy for expensive, where to buy expensive lights or things. She had no relevant experience. So she had no practical experience. She had no practical experience running projects, managing clients. She was really good at doing beautiful presentations, rendering, the tech that she understood.
Imke Du Toit
You
One, two.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
A lot of what we did, but the actual practical everyday running of the business, I didn't feel that that came over in what she'd learned at university. And she was an interior architect, so she was highly skilled and very, very good. And I probably will hire her next year when she finishes her university course. But I think they need to do not just the software, they need to
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
So.
Yes.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Work on real life jobs a bit more.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely. I think that's where it comes down to then the balance between AI and technology within the industry and going back to the basics as well, because you do need to be able to balance the two. And as you said, seeing that in real time, how that happened, exceptionally skilled in the, from the tech side of things and, you know, coming into actual practical experience that that is lacking. So hopefully, you know, the universities can get to, you know, get to a point to be able to actually balance the two that yes, the tech is exceptionally important, but ultimately we have to go back to the basics.
Of the practical experience of where it all actually started.
And just in terms of from closing off our conversation today, Philippa, there's been a noticeable exit of high net worth individuals from London. Have you felt this in your pipeline or project conversations?
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
Well, because we're actually Oxfordshire based. So we cover London and everything out to the west of London. So Oxfordshire, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hampshire, all around there. We have found there has been a shift, but there are people coming out to my area, which is wonderful because they're actually wanting bigger houses. They're wanting more space. They want garden. They want parking space. They...
Imke Du Toit
Cheers.
Yes.
Hmm.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
I think they're realizing that the city isn't for them so much. They might have a smaller place in the city, but keep the big house here. I do have some clients that are still buying in London, but they tend to be foreigners and they're buying them for investment and just holiday places really. So they're not there for a lot of the time, but I still feel that they're investing. I do think quality
over and value for money is still very, very important. They do really value things that are going to last. They come to me because they want it done once, they want it done properly, and they don't have to go through it again. Yes, there's definitely a thing of sort of, I'm never going to build a house again after I've done this.
Imke Du Toit
for
Yes, yes,
And like you said, you can just, go and you travel creating these rooms in different spaces across the world, which is really phenomenal. I'm really interested to actually see what happens and to see if this niche market and trend grows
I really hope that it does. And it's been absolutely lovely chatting to you today, Philippa. Thank you so much for joining us. I mean, it's been exceptionally inspiring, you know, just to listen to you about these intimate spaces and how you work with the clients and the time and the effort taken into creating these lovely spaces where people can feel comfortable and sensual and vulnerable.
All kind of encompassed into one beautiful package and keeping within that luxury design, interior design elements as well is absolutely wonderful. And it's been great to hear you talk about how that shapes thoughtful real world approaches to interiors, is great, which is absolutely fantastic. So it's really been lovely chatting to you today.
Philippa Sale Intimate Spaces
It's been lovely to speak to you too. I've really enjoyed it.
Imke Du Toit
Thanks.
Thank you.
And to all our wonderful listeners and watchers, thank you so much for joining us on FCI London podcast. Keep following and keep designing and join us again as we continue our conversations with London's most influential luxury designers. And until next time, I'm Imke Du Toit. Thank you so much.
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