Katerina Tchevytchalova on Designing Luxury Interiors That Feel Like Human Soul

Imke Du Toit

Welcome to the FCI London podcast where we sit down with some of London's most influential luxury designers to explore their stories and inspiration behind their work. I'm your host, Imke De Toi, and I am joined today by Katarina Csávó Csávola, founder of Carte design, a West London-based studio with an international footprint in London, Zurich, and Cyprus. Fluent in five languages, Katarina blends art, culture, and refined minimalism into spaces that balance emotion, craftsmanship, and modern elegance.

Katarina Csávó Csávola

and

Imke Du Toit

Recognized by Estella magazine and shortlisted for the European Property Awards, she continues to redefine the meaning of subtle luxury in interior design. Katarina, it's such an absolute pleasure to have you here today and welcome to the conversation.

Katerina

Wow, what an introduction. Thank you so much. Lovely to meet you.

Imke Du Toit

Lovely to meet you.

Imke Du Toit

Katarina, your work feels deeply personal and every detail tells a specific story. At what point did you realize you weren't just designing luxury spaces, but rather telling international stories?

Katerina

So I think it happened quite naturally because our design is very much driven by our clients as well. And obviously every client is so different and the way they live and use their house, their space is so different as well. So I would say that when we started getting more international work as well, so in Cyprus and Switzerland, we've realized that people live very different, what they like is very different, the way light hits the space is very different. And we wanted to make the design not just beautiful, but also of course needs to be really practical, it needs to be functional. So in the end, we realized that we're not just creating picture perfect spaces, but we are telling a story of how each client lives their life inside that house. And it all depends on

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

factors as which room of the house do they use the most? Do they have children? Do they have pets? Is this their forever home, their permanent home, or is this more of a pied-à-terre? So all of these factors influence that.

Imke Du Toit

So it's really just understanding their story as well, because that's what you are doing, creating spaces to tell their story and from their backgrounds and their cultures as well. With five languages, five in your repertoire, how do these different cultural lenses influence your approach to space and design?

Katerina

It's like. Exactly. Thank you.

Katerina

So I think I was really fortunate and lucky to have learned all these languages when I was quite young because of my international background. I was raised in Cyprus. I went to an international school which was very heavy on languages. And then obviously moving to London almost 20 years ago. I think it's a bit of a superpower to be honest because I think that there are lot of similarities between design and language in the sense that, you know, we're trying to tell a story and we're building a rapport.

Imke Du Toit

Yeah. Yes.

Katerina

And I find that when you're speaking to someone and they find out that you can speak their language, suddenly the energy shifts and, you know, they feel more at home with you, they feel more comfortable with you. And that is case with clients and suppliers and contractors. And I find that if you speak the person's language, you understand certain nuances that cannot be translated into another language. So it might be like a little joke, a little phrase.

Imke Du Toit

Absolutely.

Katerina

you know, the way they say something and you're able to catch that, which helps you to deliver a project to the best of your ability. And it's something that, you know, sometimes untranslatable.

Imke Du Toit

Absolutely, I feel that is something that's so unbelievably important. I guess it also breaks the ice a little bit with the clients as well and they feel a lot more comfortable to be able to get their ideas across in their own language, which I think is fantastic. And I'm sure it opens up a lot more scope and space for you as well, as a designer and in terms of stretching your growth a little bit further as well, which is fantastic. So I wanted to ask, minimalism is often misunderstood as empty.

Katerina

Hmm.

Imke Du Toit

I mean, you champion refined minimalism with texture and balance. What do you think is the most common mistake people make when trying to strip back without adding any depth?

Katerina

So I think you very rightly noted that it has a very bad rep because when you say, you know, all the space is minimalist, people think, it's bare, it's cold, it's boring, there's not much to look at. But I think the whole concept of minimalism is not taking away things, it's not stripping away things, but it's more about refining. So in a space that's minimalist, you need to ask yourself the question, what is the purpose of each item?

you know, what stories are trying to tell, what function does it have? you know, minimalist doesn't mean, you know, playing walls with, I don't know, some metal shelves. It's all about refining and making sure that each item has a purpose. And I think if you combine maybe not many items, but they all have different textures, this automatically makes

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

things more interesting, it still makes your eye travel. I think on a psychological level, not living among clutter is a lot more relaxing. And I find that all of my clients are very busy people with, you know, very busy careers. And when they want to come home, they want to feel relaxed and not have all this visual clutter around them. And I'm generally a believer that having negative space, i.e.

bit of empty space is a big luxury, especially in a city like London, where we're trying to be clever and use every single centimeter for something practical.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

and to be

out there and bold and wanting to add too much.

Katerina

Exactly. I mean, of course, as I said, you know, our projects are driven by the client and there are some clients who like to have a lot of things, but we always try to advise them against it. Because also another thing to remember when we're designing, it's not a show home. It's not, you know, a house where every cushion, every vase will stay like this for X amount of time.

A house is a living organism and, you know, clients might go to an art fair and buy a new piece of art. They might buy a new piece of, I don't know, vase, accessory, ceramics, little side table. And if we leave them with a house that has no space for growth, every corner is already stuffed with things, then they cannot evolve. And I think designers, we as designers also need to accept that the house is not going to look.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

the way we've left it in, let's say, two years time. And that's okay. And that's natural. Yeah.

Imke Du Toit

Yes, yes.

No, absolutely, I do agree. think, do you think people are a little bit scared, maybe a little bit of minimalism sometimes as well, where they always feel that they have to add more, you know, as well. you know, sometimes understanding that too much is too much. You know, sometimes you do need that balance and that space. Like you said as well, to make a tranquil space where can feel calm is so vitally important in the very busy world that we live in, you know.

Katerina

Exactly. Yes.

Imke Du Toit

If you could change three things about luxury interior design, what would they be? And why do you think they're long overdue for a little bit of a shake up? If you could choose three.

Katerina

Cool.

Three things that need to be changed in luxury interior design. I think, well, the good thing is I think things are already changing quite a lot in our industry. think people are not always, designers are not always approaching the big superstar brands anymore when it comes to sourcing pieces of furniture.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

and they are open to exploring more niche items that are made by artisans. And I think that is the true luxury, something that is potentially handmade, something that is limited edition. So it's not just the box standard, big brand sofa that you bought from a luxury store in central London. And I think, luckily, clients are realizing that as well.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

So think people are stepping away from like the mainstream concept of what luxury is, which is great. I think the other thing is, which again, I am seeing this shift. Another word in luxury design that had a bad rep for many years is sustainability, because automatically people are thinking, my God, it's going to be some ugly recycled plastic.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Yes.

Katerina

label, why am I paying, you know, 12,000 pounds for it? But that is no longer the case. A lot of luxury brands, a lot of artisans, they are looking into how we can make our world more sustainable, how we can reuse items, give them a new lease of life, how we can bring more vintage items into an interior. Which, you know, I think a couple of years ago, a luxury client would be like, vintage, you want to my stuff with

Imke Du Toit

Mm. Sure.

Katerina

you know, someone else's old crap.

Imke Du Toit

Yes, and I don't want something really purposed. Of course, yes, I want something that's mine and you're not reused.

Katerina

I want it shiny, brand new, know, I'm the first person to touch it. But I think now clients and designers are embracing this concept of an item having history behind it, giving it a new lease of life, as I mentioned, which I think is really nice. Yeah.

Imke Du Toit

Yes. which is great. It really gets that story to keep going as well. It sort of gives that longevity to that piece as well, ever changing, ever moving.

Katerina

Exactly.

Exactly. I think third thing is perhaps back in the day, people would value things more that came from the other side of the planet, know, saying things like, this marble all the way from, I don't know, Brazil. took us 10 months to get it here. I think now this is again linked a little bit to sustainability. People want to see what is local to them or not as far away.

Imke Du Toit

Mm.

Yes.

Katerina

from their country because they want to support local business. And they just want to explore what's essentially on their doorstep rather than seeing what's on the other side of the world. And that is, in my opinion, luxury as well.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

No, absolutely. think I agree with that. Sometimes there's so many beautiful gems right on your doorstep that you don't actually need to travel as far to get them and to consider that to be luxury. I definitely, I think, concur with what you said with that one. It's nice to see that that's being embraced and from both sides, be it designers and from clients. I want to move a little bit just into your...

kind of journey with your collaboration with FCI London. mean, collaboration is such a vital part of creativity and it really pushes ideas further and brings a fresh energy into every project. Reflecting back on a project, was there a piece sourced by FCI that really finished up something you considered emblematic of your style?

Katerina

Yes, actually, that's a really good question. I mean, when I'm designing for private residential clients, you know, I want things to look really beautiful, but I'm all about practicality as well. So we sourced a beautiful dining table via FCI for our Chelsea project, where it was for a busy family with young children. They entertained quite a lot. You know, we designed a beautiful kitchen and it's an open-plan kitchen and we needed a wow.

statement table that was easy to maintain, was the right size, didn't have sharp corners and was just a statement piece in an otherwise quite, you know, paired back space. And we chose the perfect dining table with the help of FCI, of course, from Bonaldo. And it had this beautiful ceramic top which had rounded edges. So, you know, if there are kids running around.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

It's quite practical, nobody will hit themselves on any sharp corners. And the color was quite, you know, neutral. had this beautiful veining going through it. But then the base of the table was the wow element. It was quite sculptural and made out of this beautiful, dark gray kind of charcoal metal. And it really ended up being a statement piece. And, know, I had client feedback later on that, you know, whoever comes for a dinner party, they're always asking,

Imke Du Toit

Boom.

Katerina

Where is this from? This is amazing. I think that was a really good collaboration because we hit all the main, we ticked all the right boxes. So it was something beautiful. It was really practical. It's easy to maintain. It will stand the test of time. was a very, because it was quite neutral in its color and its shape, it's something that will still look very relevant in 10 years time.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Yes, of course.

Katerina

this is what I want my clients to have. I don't want them to be stuck with something that they will potentially have to replace in three years because they spilled some red wine and it's irreparable or there's never ending invoices from someone who needs to come and polish the top. Busy families, they just don't have time for this.

Imke Du Toit

I

Yes.

Of course, and obviously with children, like you were saying as well, what's great is to get a statement piece that's also so practical that it's also not a safety hazard for anyone as well. And just the balance between the two, if you can find that, that's fantastic. With over 700 bespoke luxury furniture brands under one roof at FCI, I mean, how do you stay true to your own artistic vision when faced with such a vast choice?

Katerina

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So the choice is huge. Obviously, FCI represents so many amazing brands. So I think that when we start our design process, we start asking ourselves and the client the question, right, how do you want it to feel? And once you've got that figured out, you can kind of move on to figuring out, know, right, we want it to feel warm, cozy, inviting, or whatever the criteria is for whichever room, then that kind of helps you to establish the design vision. And because FCI curates, you know, really beautiful, well-known established brands as designers with, you know, over a decade of experience, we kind of know what each brand represents and what kind of feel it has. So then having all this huge choice is just about editing a little bit. It shouldn't be overwhelming and it's not overwhelming. I actually think it's great to find, you know,

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

so many multiple pieces that I can source under one roof rather than, you know, calling 10 different people and running around 10 different showrooms, collecting samples, collecting quotes. Everything can be done, you know, under one roof. I know that I'll get amazing customer service. I'll get all the quotes. I'll get white glove service, you know, when it comes to deliveries. And there's not much to be worried about. And another thing is, of course, after Brexit,

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

We had that bit of a wobble of, my gosh, who takes care of the customers? So that was really overwhelming and a little bit scary because you never know whether you'll get a mystery invoice at the end of the month for X amount of thousands. But by working with a brand like FCI, all of that is taken care of. And the invoice, the quote that you get, that's what it is.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

It's done very, very streamlined, efficient and everything. Like you said, under one roof there, absolutely just convenient and efficient way of working, which is great. Craftsmanship and detailing sit in the heart of your studio's work. How crucial has FCI's selection been in aligning with that level of precision?

Katerina

Yes.

Exactly.

Yeah, so I think, you know, craftsmanship and this attention to detail is what luxury is. You know, that's what differentiates, you know, an armchair that you buy for 200 pounds versus an armchair for, I don't know, seven. So I think because FCI are so meticulous about the brands that they represent, I, as a designer while sourcing,

Imke Du Toit

music

Katerina

feel at ease knowing that all these brands have been vetted. Because sometimes you do see some brands maybe you didn't really work with before, you don't really know what kind of quality is going to show up. Yeah, it looks great on pictures, but is that real life as well? But, you know, working with FCI, I do feel confident that all these brands have been vetted. You know, your colleagues have seen the items in real life, potentially they visited the factories, they know the owners of these brands.

Imke Du Toit

Mm.

Katerina

And I know for a fact you would not represent someone that doesn't carry a very high level of attention to detail and quality. So that does make me feel at ease. And then, of course, you've got all the samples in your showroom. You display quite a lot of items in your showroom. So you can actually go and touch it and, again, be convinced and be put at ease that what you're getting is a very high level of craftsmanship.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

I feel that that's very, very important when you're collaborating in partnerships is to know that you've got that trust and that you feel at ease that everything will be taken care of. You know that the products that are coming from there is something that you trust and that you know that your clients will trust as well, directly and indirectly. So it's really fantastic to be able to create partnerships like that. And it's fantastic that you have that with FCI. I'm gonna move a little bit to something different. I it's something we talk about all the time. It's something that's transforming our lives as we go.

Katerina

because I'm a gay.

Yeah.

that.

Imke Du Toit

is technology and AI. And I mean, it's changing the way we create experiences, spaces as well. I mean, there's a growing concern that AI and rapid technology growth may dilute the human touches and interiors. Where do you stand on the tension between speed, efficiency and emotion?

Katerina

So, you know, everybody's talking about it right now. This is a very hot topic and I actually had a discussion about this yesterday with a few other people from the industry. So I think we should actually embrace it. Yes, it's developing at lightning speed. And I actually think that the interior design industry is the one industry that's still kind of quote unquote safe.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

and I'll explain why. So first of all, it's a fantastic tool for efficiency, as you said. So there are some elements of the project where AI can be amazing. It can save businesses money, time, and it's super efficient. For example, right now with the way AI has developed, we can generate CGI's and renders at lightning speed and very cost effectively.

Whereas before we would need to pay a visualizer to do that. So this is a great way to test out ideas really quickly. And especially this can be used with clients that are a bit more hesitant while making decisions, because some clients want to see loads of options and they're still not convinced and they want to make loads of tweaks. So if you're working with a CGI artist, this can end up being quite costly for the designer and for the client. So that's the good thing.

Imke Du Toit

Of course.

Katerina

The second thing I saw a meme on Instagram the other day about why AI will never take over interior design business. need to give very clear prompts of what you want. reason clients hire us is because they don't necessarily know what they want because they cannot possibly know what's out there. So, you know, when I have an empty room, I've got all these ideas because I've seen lots of different things. I've seen what my

Imke Du Toit

I'm

Even while he is.

Exactly.

Yes.

you

Katerina

colleagues are doing, I've seen what other designers in different countries are doing, I'm subscribed to various design publications. My ideas are there, but a client has no idea. So what exactly is it going to prompt AI to do? a red room, design a kid's room. So it might give a really lovely picture, great, but then how do you get the best price? How do you procure it? How do you make sure it shows up at your house?

Imke Du Toit

Yeah.

Yes.

That's it.

Exactly.

Yes.

Katerina

on time and in one piece.

Imke Du Toit

is it possible and even doable you know in reality versus pictures?

Katerina

possible, you know, or even space planning from a structural point of view, from an electrical point of view, is this even feasible? You know, so AI might recommend something and then that doesn't work. And you tell AI like, Hey, this didn't work. My roof just collapsed. And Chad GPT will be, we're right. That's a very well noted point. Let me explore how we can fix your roof. know, let me give you some other options.

Imke Du Toit

Sorry.

That's just two of the other options here.

Katerina

And also the other reason why clients hire interior designers is for the luxury experience of having this person there who's ready to listen, who can interpret your taste and who can give you solutions with a very human touch and human intuition and who you can build a rapport with, someone who you feel you know. So I think it's not just completing a task. We are forming

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

I can talk to you, yes.

Katerina

human relationships, you know, not just with clients, but with suppliers, with contractors. And if we just get AI to do a pretty picture, which it can, is it going to look beautiful? Yes. Is it going to be practical? Possibly. Is it going to be feasible? Arguably. Is it going to feel personal to you? And is it going to have a soul? No. AI doesn't have a soul. It's just...

Imke Du Toit

Absolutely.

Yes. Yeah.

Katerina

a really efficient intern.

Imke Du Toit

Absolutely,

I think that was absolutely beautifully said, but you're right, and it really does strip that. I can you imagine a future where virtual reality and AI tools actually shape more than just visualization? But the actual design decisions, how comfortable would you be handing over all of that process, all of those processes? Because as you said, it's so important we need the designers for that human touch. Would you be comfortable handing over part of your process through over to AI? mean, do you use it now in the time? As you were saying, everyone needs to embrace it at some point as well.

Katerina

Yeah, we have started using it. for things as things like visualizations or some quick sketches, testing out different ideas, different proportions. Would I feel comfortable handing all of it over? No, because just the time I would waste inputting all the information, everything I know about the client, how they live life, you know, what they're trying to gain out of this whole experience, it will take so long.

I've done some test runs, know, writing different prompts. The result is never what I want. However, as technology progresses, I think it can only become more helpful for us because maybe it can do some sort of, know, simulations, on-site simulations of how natural light hits different corners of the room and, you know, things like that. But it cannot replace a human. It cannot.

ever understand a human with a soul the way another human can.

Imke Du Toit

No, absolutely.

And how we kind of bring our own energies and personalities for it as well. It is different. And then how you're communicating with different people. I mean, if a younger version of yourself were to start out now in an era where these tools are far more advanced, I mean, what would your biggest caution for using technology wisely be to a young, you know, and to sort of vetting it?

Katerina

Yeah.

So I think it will give me bit of peace knowing that all those tools are there. However, I still think that you should do things, okay, I don't want to say traditional or old fashioned way, but you kind of need to know how to do things and understand proportion and form and light and how it reflects and how it hits different materials yourself. You cannot just be relying on technology because

If you are, then again, you're taking the soul out of the whole process. So you do need to go on site, you know, learn as much as you can, talk to other people, talk to other designers who are more experienced than you, talk to suppliers, talk to contractors, talk to joiners to understand how things are actually made. Because yes, AI can give you an instruction of, you know, how something works.

Imke Du Toit

for us.

Thanks.

Katerina

But if you've never seen it in real life, you've never touched it, you've never experienced things going wrong, you're just not going to learn.

Imke Du Toit

Yes, of course. No, I absolutely agree. like you said as well, learn as much as you can, ask as many questions as you can, and then take them and try and implement that in a balance with the tools that you're given with the ever-growing technological age we've moved into. And then to really find that balance like you said. I mean, the of interiors is also constantly evolving. And I mean, it's shaping by shifting lifestyles and new expectations, of course, as well. In a world fixated on the next big trend, because we know that that's a constant thing at the current, at the moment. I mean, how do you differentiate between what's timeless and what's merely temporary?

Katerina

Yeah, think social media obviously played a huge role in all of this. You go on Instagram and you're bombarded by all these beautiful images and different accounts are telling you, oh, burgundy is the color of the season. You need to have burgundy in your house. Oh, you need to have this kind of flooring. Your bathrooms need to look a certain way. So I think the way we have fast fashion.

Imke Du Toit

Thanks.

Yes.

Katerina

we are also at a point now where we have fast interiors. The thing is, first of all, we need to understand that fast interiors and things that are quite temporary and, you know, follow a certain trend that may not be relevant in 10 years time could potentially not be made with as much care as something that is built to last. And

Imke Du Toit

Okay, yes.

Katerina

I think the important thing is to make sure that in your interior, the base that is difficult to rip out and expensive to rip out should be something quite timeless. There's nothing wrong with, you know, following a few trends because, you know, as I said, a house is a living organism, things evolve. So, you know, you can smoke over your art or maybe, you know, reupholster a chair in a different fabric or, you know, get different decorative pendant or whatever but the bones of the house i.e you know the flooring what kind of finishes you have in the bathroom what your kitchen looks like should be quite timeless it's a little bit like you know if if you've got five thousand pounds to spend shopping are you going to spend five thousand pounds on a ball gown

Imke Du Toit

I

Katerina

the moment you have a 9 to 5 job or are you going to spend it on a beautiful cashmere coat?

Imke Du Toit

Absolutely, a coat would obviously be the way to go. It's something that's there and can be used and reused as time goes on. You're absolutely right. Sure. Sure.

Katerina

Yes, because you're using it more, I mean, unless you're the type of person that attends bowls every week.

Imke Du Toit

Mmm.

Yes, you know, but I completely understand what you're saying. know, foundations are, you know, are so important and needing to make sure that that, you know, remains timeless, you know, timelessly and with anything else can be temporary and swapped in and out, as you said, multiple trends. We touched a little bit earlier on sustainability. mean, clients are now far more aware of sustainability, provenance and craft. I mean, how do you engage with clients who expect everything ethical now, but still want luxury detailing?

Katerina

In my experience, I have not had a client that expected everything to be ethically sourced. Definitely not. I think they are more concerned, let's say if we're doing a full renovation, there's an architect involved, then they are looking into making their home as sustainable as possible. I.e., we're looking into different ways of heating the house, what's more efficient, what materials can.

Imke Du Toit

have.

Katerina

keep the heat in the house, installing solar panels, so all these kind of things. And then when it comes to interiors, yes, they want to make sure things are ethically sourced. So in particular, things like rugs, they want to make sure that wherever the rugs are coming from, the workers are being paid fairly. So that's a conversation that I had with a client recently. So provenance.

Imke Du Toit

Cool.

Katerina

Yeah, where things are coming from, what is the carbon footprint? Like, how difficult is it for us to get it in the UK? And is there any way for us to perhaps find something similar closer to home? You know, and when it comes to sourcing things like marble, if there is a specific marble that we know is going to be unavailable in a few years time on planet Earth, then maybe that's something we try to steer them.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

Yes, of course. Yeah.

Katerina
away from. And then

things like timber flooring, you know, we only work with suppliers that can attest and provide a certificate that everything was sourced ethically.

Imke Du Toit

Okay.

Yes, I guess that also, you know, I think helps as well as knowing that also the like, again, the partnerships you have with your suppliers as well immediately just puts trust back into your clients, which obviously creates a little bit, you know, less of that conversation. What's an interior design idea you believe is overhyped and what's something quietly emerging that you believe will matter significantly within the next, let's say, five years?

Katerina
Yeah.

Um, something that's overhyped. Um, maybe this whole concept of having a statement wall, having a statement. Yeah. Statement wall. find it a little bit odd. Like, you you might.

Imke Du Toit
Yes. But I understand what you say. Something like a... It's just an accent piece and an accent wall. I completely understand. I mean, we've all done it. We all do it, you know?

Katerina

You're mine.

Sometimes it's random. Yeah, you just look really random. Like you walk into a space and everything is flowing really nicely and suddenly you have this really weird wall that, I mean, it has no relation to anything. I find that really odd, especially in a residential house, maybe works in a commercial, like a hotel or a restaurant. So yeah, that's the one thing.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

No.

Yes.

No, I think I agree, but it did become just this thing and then everybody just jumped on it. But I guess that's what happens with trends, isn't it? You know, and with social media right now, everyone wanting to fit in and it's, I've got this and I've got this, and everyone just ends up with the same thing and nothing just comes across as bespoke and unique anymore then. But definitely interesting, but I would agree. Think someone mentioned something to me as well. Just the...

Katerina

Yeah. Yeah.

That's

Imke Du Toit

Perplexed about everyone having a random accent more within their homes. But it is just one of those things. It was just one of those trends. Everyone jumped onto it. It'll be interesting to see within the next five years if that's going to be something. Because I've noticed people stripping down more and more too, like with minimalism as well and looking more for comfort and efficiency at this point as well.

Katerina Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Imke Du Toit

Okay, we're going to look and jump a little bit straight into one of your projects. I've got some photos of one of your recent projects here with me and I'm going to quickly share this with us today.

That's absolutely beautiful. It's absolutely just some stunning, stunning pieces in there. Looking at the space, I mean, the interplay between the light and the form and the textures is quite evident. What was your guiding litmus test for each of those elements in those pictures?

Katerina

So this was for a residential client, again, a busy family of children. So their brief to me was, we don't want grey and white. We've lived in such interiors before. This is not who we are. We want something with a bit of personality, something that feels warm. So the house had fantastic natural light. There is a skylight, there is floor to ceiling windows. So we really took advantage of that.

Imke Du Toit

Yeah.

Katerina

And we used kind of a very tonal palette with some accent colors of like rust red and burgundies. So all the elements in those rooms that you've shown, they have different textures. So even on the walls, for example, we didn't go for a flat paint, but we actually specified a lime wash paint, which has a lot more movement and texture to it.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

Depending on the light of day, depending on the season, it just looks completely different. So, you know, every time you enter a room, the room looks slightly different, which is great. And then we just wanted things to feel very calm, which is why, you know, we went for these kind of timber, the finished colors. We didn't want anything that's, you know, too light. We didn't want anything too dark because in winter months, this can go a little bit too heavy.

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Katerina

So everything is very tonal, but there is a lot of texture and then there are some pops of color, which I think again is very important. And all the fabrics that were specified are stain repellent, very easy to maintain. They are natural fibers, so there's no risk of anything getting, let's say, an allergic reaction or anything like that.

Imke Du Toit

Thanks.

Katerina

All the items, like so the rugs for example, were made to size just to make sure that everything fits perfectly in terms of proportion.

Imke Du Toit

Yes, within space.

It's so beautifully balanced as well. You can also just see the different textures in every single bit of the fabrics as well, as you said, and everything just blends so perfectly together, but stands separately on, you know, at its own, as statements on its own. And then the blend together is just absolutely gorgeous.

Imke Du Toit

I mean, you often speak about emotion behind the architecture. I mean, was there a moment during the Kenzal Rise project where you realized the space had finally captured that feeling?

Katerina

Okay.

Katerina

Yes, I think it was at the very end when everything was finally installed, styled, you know, all the light fittings had the bulbs in, all the, you know, we brought some flowers in, we brought everything in. And then when natural light just entered the room, I just realized that everything was intentional. Like there's not a single piece there that has no function. Everything is very practical.

Imke Du Toit

No.

Imke Du Toit

Yeah.

Katerina

And the reason all the colors complement each other so well is because we didn't just design it and specify everything in our studio where the lighting, of course, is very different to what it is on site. So we actually went to site at different times of day with all the materials. We asked the contractor to do paint finish samples and we would just revisit the site several times to make sure that everything looks the way we intended to in the actual space.

Imke Du Toit

Yes, that's incredible as well. I mean, just being that hands on, I mean, if you have to be, guess, as well as to making sure that the choices that you're making are going to work any time of the day. And obviously, I mean, that's, but I think that's absolutely stunning. And then you must have been quite interesting to see as well how everything shifts and changes with the different times of day as well and how exciting it's going to be to have your clients.

be able to be in that space, experience that space as well. Once it's done, that's quite incredible. I mean, that finished room feels layered yet composed. I how did you know it was done? And how do you resist the urge to keep layering? Because I think we always want to try and just do a little bit more. And sometimes you have to force yourself to stop and know that the product is done when it is done.

Katerina (34:56)

Yeah, I think again, it goes back to my point of this not being a showroom. This is not a show home. This is real families. Know, they're going to have kids running in. They're going to have their friends gifting them something for Christmas that they can put in the joinery unit. So we need to leave a bit of breathing space. So actually in this project, we even left some walls there without any art just for future reference when the client will be buying something.

Imke Du Toit

Lifting.

is

Good.

Katerina

Space needs some, you know, some room to grow essentially. And of course, you can go crazy and put like loads of cushions on the sofa and loads of clothes and whatever. But I mean, a client when he or she sits down to watch TV, do they want to be surrounded by 10 cushions? No, those cushions are going to end up on the floor, which will be a shame and it's a waste of money for them is a waste of my time ordering and specifying all this stuff.

Imke Du Toit

Cheers.

Course. Yes.

Katerina

Everything just needs a function. So realistically, when you sit on that sofa and you're watching TV, how many cushions do you need realistically to put behind your back? Just, you don't need four. So, you know, this is not a show home. There needs to be a bit of empty space.

Imke Du Toit

Thanks.

Yes.

No, I guess that's also when they need to find the balance of, you know, you have a picture and what is once it is in real life as well, like you said as well, what is something that's sufficient and something that you can work with, you know, and comfortability because at the end of the day, that's exactly what it is creating a home, not a showroom and finding that balance that, you know, and also I guess that's also a little bit something I think designers need to, you know, probably need to battle with quite sometimes because I want it in there.

You know, to look this way, but then having to be composed enough to go, but is it, you know, something that they, your clients are going to keep using, or is it more just, you know, one of your own choices? You know, as designers, we, we need to share experiences. I mean, it's one of the most powerful ways to shape the next generation, because all of the upcoming young designers coming up at the moment. I mean, if you had one message you wanted listeners to walk away with about Cartier design, I mean, what would it be?

Katerina

I think the ethos of my brand is to be designing with emotion and with real people in mind. We're not following some sort of guidebook and we're not trying to check some boxes in the list. We're dealing with real people. So I think my main message would be probably to listen to your client. It's the most important thing, because at the end of the day, there may be things.

Imke Du Toit

Mm.

Katerina

That I don't necessarily agree on. And as long as it's something that I know will not harm their everyday practical living, sometimes you do need to go with what your client wants, because at the end of the day, it's their house, not mine. They're the ones that will be waking up and they will see, I don't know, patterned curtains or whatever it is, whatever it is that they want. So I think our job as designers is to kind of

Imke Du Toit

Yes.

Yeah.

Than living in here.

Yes.

Katerina

Take the client's wishes, listen to them, really listen to them on a personal level, understand how they live, understand how they use the space, what are their needs, how much time are they spending in each room, and then steer them in the right direction because we've got the experience and we've got the tools for that and we have, you know, a little black book of suppliers that can deliver all these different things. So it's our job to kind of gently guide them, but we cannot be forcing our vision onto a residential client especially.

In commercial projects, it's a little bit different, but if we're discussing private residential, it's their house and it's their way of living. And the way they live is not the way I live or the way you live or the way my neighbor lives. You know, so again, that goes back to that personal touch with the soul because Chad GPT will not be going to their house at different times of day, testing out pain.

Imke Du Toit

See you.

No, it sees four walls and it tries to recreate. That's it. I mean, finally, if you were to re-enter the industry today, what's one rule you might rewrite and why? If you had to re-enter it today, if you were to do it all over again to start off again fresh, what rule would you rewrite?

Katerina

What would I rewrite? It's a difficult one. I think there are generally quite a few things that need to change in the industry for young designers that are entering the industry. So number one, I think it would be great to have some sort of mentor early on because I don't think our industry has that, unfortunately. So you come out of university and you're kind of...

Imke Du Toit

Mmm.

Katerina

Dropped into the ocean and you don't really know what you're meant to be doing. And I think the industry actually ends up losing quite a lot of fresh talent because this fresh talent is overworked, burnt out, underpaid, and constantly being told that they're not ready, not ready for something. But how can you be ready if no one shows you and no one mentors you? You know, so

Imke Du Toit

This.

Mmm.

Yes. Yes.

Exactly. Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I mean, that is very, that's vitally important because how do you keep, you know, ever learning and it's always one of those things. If someone showed you something one day, it's good to be able to, to know that you can pass it on as well. But I think mentorship is definitely one thing. And also it goes from both sides. You know, you're going to have the young generations also going to, you know, be adapting a little bit quicker to the things that's happening now. And it's sort of that insight, you know, back to the mentorship. It's always actually such a beautiful combination. But I do agree. And it is difficult, Arthur, especially for young up and coming designers as well, sort of finding the space, finding the footing. And as you said, being overworked or being burnt out, you know, earlier on, because no one also told them.

Katerina

Yeah.

Imke Du Toit

You know, what to do, step back, where to look at things a little bit differently. So I absolutely agree. I think that's a great one. And now for a little bit of a fun element. We call this the rapid fire with Katarina. So I'm going to ask you a few small little questions and it's like a little one word quick answers and let's see what you come up with. Okay, so number one, morning inspiration, sketchbook or scroll?

Katerina

Ooh.

Okay.

Scroll.

Imke Du Toit

Design tools you can't live without.

Katerina

Pencil? No, sorry, tape measure, tape measure!

Imke Du Toit

Okay, if not interiors, you would be designing.

Katerina

Laws. I would be a politician.

Imke Du Toit

Here we go, I love that. Well, here's one for you. Tea, coffee or champagne during client meetings? Okay, always, you know, professional. A design rule you love to break.

Katerina

Yeah.

Under promise and over deliver.

Imke Du Toit

That's good. That's very good. If FCI London designed your home, what would be the showstopper piece?

Difficult one. It's such a vast choice of things. If you had to think of something, if they designed your home, what would the showstopper be, please?

Katerina

Well, that's a really difficult one. There's too many things. I don't know. Maybe an amazing, maybe an amazing Meridiani sofa that I can just like sink into. Yeah, love Meridiani. Yeah.

Imke Du Toit

Well, think about a few of your fears.

Can just yeah and just lie back in on and enjoy. That's wonderful. Okay describe your design style in one word.

Katerina

Practical.

Imke Du Toit

But that's exactly what it is, it embodies everything. That's a very good choice of words, a difficult question sometimes. If your studio had a motto, what would it be?

Katerina

Yeah.

Studio, we listen to you.

Imke Du Toit

Love that. Love that. Oh, but it's always so fun just to ask these quick little questions, see how you think on your feet. I did, I did, but it's all just a little bit a little bit of fun, but thank you so much, Katerina. It's absolutely lovely chatting to you today and listening to your inspiring journey and your experiences and sharing your artistry and perspective on design. And it's been really inspiring.

Katerina

You really put me on the spot. I wasn't ready for this.

Imke Du Toit

To hear how you blend your culture and emotion and craftsmanship into everything that you really create. And we really look forward to seeing your upcoming work and to following what Cartier Design will be doing and really wishing you all the best. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on today.

Katerina

Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Imke Du Toit

so much. And to all our listeners and watchers out there, this has been FCI London podcast and we hope to see you again. Keep listening, keep watching, keep designing and follow us next week again where we are going to talk to more influential luxury designers from FCI London. Thank you so much.