From his minimalist approach to the art of balancing creativity with functionality, Bilal Tatar shares what it really takes to design luxury interiors that last. In this conversation, he pulls back the curtain on his design process, offering a refreshingly honest take on sustainability, space planning, and why AI, though useful, will never replace the human touch.
On his design philosophy: "A space should feel authentic and lived-in. Beauty matters, but comfort, practicality, and a touch of serenity are what truly make a home luxurious."
On the importance of sustainability:"Sustainability isn’t a fleeting trend; it’s a duty. Every material and detail must support both the client’s wellbeing and the world they inhabit."
On the impact of AI in interior design: "AI may speed up the process, but it can’t replace intuition or empathy. It’s merely a tool, and must always be guided by human judgement."
On hospitality design in luxury residences: "Hotel-inspired spaces may be chic, but homes need warmth, durability, and soul. The mood can be borrowed, but the details must always be personal."
On the evolution of interior design education: "Digital skills are crucial, but the basics still count. Designers must sketch, solve problems on-site, and think beyond just the software."
Explore 30,000 sq. ft. of luxury interiors with over 700 world-class brands - expertly guided by our design team, every step of the way.
Book Your VisitImke Du Toit
Welcome to the FCI London podcast where we sit down with some of London's most influential luxury designers to explore the stories and inspiration behind their work. I am your host, Imke Du Toit, and today I'm joined by none other than Bilal Tatar, founder and principal designer of Bee Studio, a London-based interior architecture and design studio creating modern, sustainable, and functional spaces that reflect true elegance.
And with over 20 years of international experience across cities like Istanbul, New York, and Seoul, Bilal brings a global perspective and a refined technical eye to everything he designs. Bilal, it's absolutely wonderful to have you here today. Welcome to the conversation.
Bilal
Hello Imke, thank you for the introduction. I'm very excited to be on your channel.
Imke Du Toit
Fantastic. So Bilal, we're just going to jump straight in and look a little bit at the designer behind the studio. You've built Bee Studio around structure and precision. Do you ever worry that technical perfection is slowly killing the soul of design?
Bilal
Well, yeah, I think it's a balance, you know. First, as a designer, you would like to think out of the box and then dream the space and feel it. But of course, this dream has to be set on the basis of reality structures or any budget, these kinds of boring things. But in the end, that's the reality.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Bilal
We try to balance it, we, in certain stages, we release ourself, our imagination, without really thinking about these kind of constraints. But we always remind ourself. So there is a like, we should think about how they gonna install it. We should worry about the budget. But...
I think it's like we don't start point like, hey, this is our budget. What we can do with this budget. That's not our approach. mean, it's a kind of, yeah, we have different, different project in different approaches, but generally as I say, first we release, we start dream from the top and then suddenly slowly we settle down.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Means bring it down.
Yes, of course. So what are three luxury design rules you've quietly kicked to the curb over the years and why was it high time to let go of it?
Bilal
Well, the luxury term is kind of... It's not about being expensive for me. It is about what you like to achieve and how long you want to use that item. I mean...
Imke Du Toit
Is.
Bilal
If you want to make an analogy, it's like when you buy a good brand, like a bag or jacket, it lasts for years. In the long term, actually, it's not being expensive. You invest a lot in the beginning, but it lasts for years. Similarly, let's say a hand-tafted carpet. I mean, yes, in the beginning it's expensive, but it can, you can even...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Yes.
Bilal
Give to your sons or kids like it is a kind of legacy. So luxury for me means not necessarily to be expensive. It could be, I mean, usually expensive, of course, but it is not about the money. It's about like how long you want to use it. Like also how it's produced. Is it sustainably produced?
Imke Du Toit
Yes, it
Hmm.
Close.
Bilal
How it's sourced, these kinds of things makes that luxury feel.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely. You know, creating something that's timeless, as you said, as well, something that can get passed down from generation to generation. At the end of the day, it becomes priceless. You know, it actually has way more value, like, as you said, about something that doesn't have to be necessarily about expense and that for luxury, which I think I completely also agree with, you know, with what you're saying. Also creating something that's sustainable and functional, as well as bespoke and elegant, you know, which can fall into the brand.
Bilal
Yeah.
Bye bye.
Imke Du Toit
Of luxury. Looking back, what was the biggest misconception you had about running a design business in London's luxury market specifically?
Bilal
I mean, I used to work in New York and the houses in the United States were much larger. The biggest challenge I have is like space is very small. So I have to consider it like, my God, even the... like regardless, I mean, there are of course like there are big mansions, but I'm just excluding them for now. In general, the houses are very small. So that is kind of very difficult to make decisions on the furniture.
Imke Du Toit
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Bilal
And I mean, everybody travels, they see something, I want to have it, but I mean, sorry, but it doesn't fit your space. I mean, you should be... So that is kind of the biggest challenge I had.
London, to be honest, when I moved from another... and then now I get used to it, but it was one of the challenges I had personally.
Imke Du Toit
No, absolutely. I mean, understanding also that you work across quite a few different cities across the globe as well, the amount of different spaces and how you need to adapt, you know, and look at those misconceptions of what one space can do versus another space must be quite, quite interesting. And obviously quite a nice challenge as well, I think, as a designer.
Bilal
Exactly.
Imke Du Toit
Looking a little bit at the creative side, you know, for the creative mind of a designer, you know, social media is now the official dictator of design trends or most people, you know, would feel that way. Do you think it's influencing designers' creative choices, even if they're pretending it's not?
Bilal
Yes, and no, I mean, for me, I use social media as just a tool to be visible, but I don't use it as a marketing tool, to be honest.
Everybody has a Pinterest mood board now. They approach me and that's our job to do this feasibility and present them the mood board. Now the clients come up with like, this is our mood board. All right, thank you, but let me do my job.
Imke Du Toit
Which is great because it keeps to the uniqueness. I think social media is so constantly changing and expanding and sometimes, you know, people get so drawn and sucked into it as well that that's what they're following. So it's really nice to know that you're keeping your uniqueness and it's not a tool you are using, as you said, as well to attract people but more to have a space to.
Imke Du Toit
To showcase your work. Do you think designers still think about designing for people or are they too busy designing for the next Instagram post? We're looking at this perspective.
Bilal
Yeah, good question. I mean...
A little bit of both, right? I mean, of course we want to create this stage that, to be able, I mean, when I design, I say, this would be a cover page. That, that because when we do the CGI's, we are walking through in space, I say, my God, this is going to be on the cover page. So we get excited and then, but during this process, things might change depending on the budget or depending on the client preference.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm.
Close.
Bilal
And I may end up like saying, okay, maybe not in the cover page anymore, but so I usually follow, don't like direct client to go that path. I mean, I usually more follow what they're comfortable with. In the end, I really give importance to what the client prefers because in the end, that's their home.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Bilal
But I will give you an example about this social media thing. Once I had a client and we are choosing a coffee table for them and then she showed me a coffee table which is impossible, like 1.4 meter diameter solid wood, but the shape is like a bare bark wood.
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
Cheers.
Bilal
I said, this is not real, this is AI. But she said, but I love it. But I said, there's not such a tree. I mean, it could be like a laminated wood. It doesn't exist. It is totally like sci-fi. Like, this is not real. I think it's very important for the clients to differentiate what is real, what is possible.
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Yeah, yes, yes.
Yes, absolutely.
Bilal
It is possible if you cut like maybe a thousand years old, like a listed tree from I don't know... Probably you cannot cut it in England but let's say you cut it in East Asia and bring it here. Yes, it's possible and it could cost you maybe half a million.
Imke Du Toit
No, absolutely. It's a very, very fine line and then having to, you know, explain to clients that what you think is there is not always what will be, what will be the reality or what is even possible.
Yes, it's always an interesting conversation with regards to that, what is possible, what is real, especially with the growing of technology and social media and just how it's moving vastly quickly. The hospitality look has become the default for many luxury residences. Do you think this trend reflects fresh inspiration in luxury interior design, or is it simply a system of creative exhaustion in that industry?
Bilal
Well, this is a difficult question for me. Yes, there are people who say we want this hospitality, like hotel vibe in our houses. I think it's personal preference. And some people say we want like minimalist, candy look.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Bilal
Yeah, but this hotel vibe and this luxury, I mean, for me, hotel hospitality design is a totally different approach because you as a designer, say the material durability is kind of being one concern and you cannot really go like because it's a big quantity, you cannot really go like very high-end products. It should be contract material. For me, it's different, but...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Bilal
From the look, the image, yes, we can create a room that looks like a hotel, but when you look at in detail, like fabric and the details, I mean, I cannot use like real wood veneer in a hotel room. It should be like melamine or it should be a dribble material. And also, like on the flooring, should be like dribble and also fire rating. So this kind of stuff, but yeah, in general, for me, when you say...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Bilal
Hotel-wide residential, I take it as an image, not as in the details, a totally different approach.
Imke Du Toit
No, I completely, completely understand. In terms of looking at that, it might also be, I've also noticed that with the trends within that hospitality, you know, look, clean lines, not too much clutter. And as you said as well, it all comes down to what the client's preferences as well. So it's not necessarily a trend that's a symptom of creative exhaustion or inspiration. More around what the client, you know, wants or the designer's signature that they have.
Bilal
Hmm.
Mm.
Yeah, true. True.
Correct. And it's a general rule, right? Who wants to create a, I mean, I don't know, I mean, except maybe maximalists, which we don't like it much, but who wants to create a cluttered space? Anyway, so we want to organize the space and create as much as like clean lines and storage. Those are our basic rules for designing any space for us. And then the other things like details like...
Imke Du Toit
Yeah.
Is...
Bilal
Is it going to be like a time reflection? Then we add this kind of ornaments depending on the style. Those are for us the basic rules, as you say.
Imke Du Toit
Cheers.
Yes, yes, no, absolutely. If I could ask what was one creative risk you took that had you questioning your sanity at the time but ultimately became a defining element of your style? As every designer's got a specific element that becomes a defining element of your style. What was one creative risk you took?
Bilal
Every project, when I start, I get like scared. Am I going to do that? I feel like I still feel like I'm just graduated and every project I feel that excitement. Am I going to achieve this? And in the end, as much as I get warm, it's like, okay, I think yes, it's going to go. When you feel the moment like, yeah, it's going to turn out good because you see these images.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm.
Yes.
Yes.
Bilal
And each space has its own potential and I'm scared not to explore and find the perfect potential, you know what I mean? Because I mean, we try many things and then I'm just scared of like, did I try all possibilities? Is it the right? Let's say I give you a fabric and you are a tailor, all right? And you're gonna cut with your scissor and when you cut, it's no way back, but should I make it...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Yes, no, completely understand, yeah.
Mm.
Yes.
Yes!
Bilal
Mini skirt with that or should I make like a blues or it's so difficult like and when you first, the first cut, I mean, okay, it's too late and it's gonna be like, it's done and end up, I mean usually most of the time we end up like we had the good decisions but yes, all projects for us, we feel that risk to make sure we...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
It's done. Yes, have to deviate.
Yes.
Bilal
We presented to the client all the possibilities and we choose the right decision, the right options.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely. But as you said as well, every project's different, it comes with its own risk factor and like you mentioned as well, being adaptable as well, because anything can go in one direction and it's just the way to be adaptable and make it work within that final product.
Let's look a little bit now at global inspirations and the industry dynamics. The luxury furniture industry seems obsessed with modularity and multifunctionality these days. Does this new innovation spark your creativity or is it just a way of making things tidier and a bit less interesting?
Bilal
Yeah, this modularity, I mean, for me, it could be useful, especially when the space is tight, as I mentioned in the beginning, in this London residential house, the space is quite limited and having multifunctionality is...
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Is.
Bilal
Add some flexibility on the use. I think that's kind of a plus side, but it also kills, as you say, some creativity and the design of the item. Because to be modular, it should be simpler, but it's like a plus or...
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
Mmm.
Yes.
Bilal
Minus everything has its own advantages and disadvantages. So I don't have a strong opinion about it. Sometimes, yes, you need to choose a modular unit to solve that problem. For us, there's a problem. Every space, every design is a problem in terms of mathematical problem. And sometimes we use this modular furniture tool to resolve that problem.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely.
Hmm.
Bilal
And sometimes we don't need it, we can use any furniture. So for us, I don't have a strong opinion on that.
Imke Du Toit
No, that's absolutely perfectly fine, but I think you absolutely said what it is. It's a balance. At the end of the day, you said as well, depending on the size of the spaces, what would be functional in that space and what won't, and then looking at it from different perspectives as well, that it's not necessarily doing this interesting, more tidy.
Bilal
I'm sorry, I cannot give any strong opinion to the listeners. I mean, this is what I feel like. I feel like I'm talking like a politician. They don't give straight answers. They say, yes, maybe, no. But I mean, that's what I feel like. I don't have any strong opinion. I just have like, maybe it may be useful sometimes not. So this is really what this is the case.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Looking at sustainability, sustainability is now the industry's favorite buzzword. Do you think the so-called green revolution is truly innovative or is it just old ideas repackaged with a fancier label?
Bilal
I think sustainability for us is very important. It is not just a label. It is real and we should consider that in any, on all decisions we have. I mean, I don't think that, I mean, it is just politicians' responsibility or big countries' responsibility while they like, okay, they have a bigger impact. But as a person,
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
Bilal
Not only forget about being a designer and as a person, I mean, we will do our best to save our world. So we are in a sphere and we live together, we are in the same room. So there is no like, my impact doesn't affect. So if I don't recycle my rubbish, there's no effect on it. Actually, it does. Or let's say if you choose your materials like from...
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
It does,
Bilal
Sustainable source or other things. Yes, it does impact the overall sustainable environment. Also, this kind of products also has an impact on your health. That's also very important. What are the chemicals being used on your product? So when we eat, we consider these kinds of labels like, I only eat, let's say, organic chicken. Yeah, that's important.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely.
Great job.
Mm.
Bilal
Because I want to know what I'm putting into my mouth. You don't... the people that don't... doesn't give the same attention, they lay into the bed, they lay into the sofa, their face touches the pillow. I mean, if it is a chemical source, and then people suddenly feel like, oh, I don't know, I have a headache, I don't know why. You know why? Because you use very cheap material and then there is a kind of... the chemicals you don't see, I mean...
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
Yes.
Very true.
Mmm.
Yes.
Bilal
These kinds of details. As a designer, our writing role is to explain to our client why these are important.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Absolutely.
No, I think that was a great
To also, as an analogy, looking at we are so focused on making sure what we are putting in our bodies, as you said, is organic, is healthy, and we don't look at what it is about the spaces that we are living in. And I absolutely, I do agree with you as well, but it, and...
Bilal
Sure.
Imke Du Toit
You making sure that clients are informed and, you know, steered in the right direction and looking for products that are, you know, sustainable, that are part of that green revolution. And just so that becomes an ongoing conversation and eventually will just become part of everyday life, which I feel is happening within the industry now. From what I understand as well as that.
Sustainable products and ethically sourced products is a very, very big thing. And a lot of suppliers as well who are supplying those products are also really following with that revolution as well, which is fantastic. If you had the power to banish five overused luxury interior design trends, what would you retire and why should they be forgotten forever?
It's a bit of a difficult one if you had to banish five overused luxury interior design trends.
Bilal
Wow, I mean
This is very... Yeah,
this is a very four-part question. Again, I don't have any strong opinion on this. I don't like... To be honest, don't... As a person, I don't follow trends. For me, we create our own trend. And for us, even for the fashion wise, I don't like... I mean, okay, in fashion...
Imke Du Toit
Mm, mm.
Bilal
Maybe people, if you have a big wardrobe and if you have a budget, I don't mind you change your dress every year. I don't mind for that. You can do this. You cannot change your home every year, right? So why we are having trends every year then? I mean, this is not something you change every year. When you renovate your house, it lasts. Exactly. It lasts for, it should last at least like 10, 20 years. So, and then,
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Yes, absolutely.
Hmm. Yes, but it's not sustainable.
Mm.
Bilal
If you follow a certain trend, let's say this year, the color is this. I mean, okay, let's paint the walls with that. What about next year? What are you going to do with that? Like, as you said, is it sustainable? No. I think for me, I don't follow these. I mean, for me, you have a preference. And what I do, don't tell this to like usually, but what I tell when I meet with the client, I tell, send me a photo of your wardrobe. So I see what colors they like.
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Mm.
Yes.
Bilal
So what's their color preference?
For me, people have preference. I mean, let's say this year color is dark brown, but if that color is not gonna make you happy when you enter a room, what is the point then? Are we trying to make other people happy? Are we trying to make people think, oh, Bilal's house is very trendy, it’s this year’s color? I mean, what is the point? For me, I should be...
Imke Du Toit
Yes. Yes, I have a show.
You...
Bilal
My family should be happy.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely. And I guess like as you were saying as well, every client is unique and it is really about creating a space, especially something like a living space, that it doesn't change every day, every week. And it really needs to speak to that person and that individual. And it's going to be different from everyone. So yes, no, completely understand if you don't follow trends that it is really much about being specific and authentic to the client. And as you said, I think that's wonderful as well.
Bilal
Right.
Imke Du Toit
Taking a different perspective and looking at the client from a more personal side and then to try and match and see what works with them, which is a great take on it.
Bilal
If you insist on something to cross over, I am sick of seeing these wood slots, wood slot panels. I mean, it's enough for me. I mean, I did that too, but now, okay, let's find something else. Now it's everywhere. So kind of, it was exciting in the beginning. Now it's like suddenly got boring. So it's seeing everywhere. So, but to...
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
Yes.
Yes.
Bilal
We replace it to, let's say, if you want some texture on it. So for us, that wood slot is like, it gives some warmth and also it has some function, like there's an acoustical board behind it, so it has a function, acoustical solution, and you create a texture on the wall. So you create different textures. So we find some other solutions like having some leather wrapped, some fluted panels, kind of that.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Hmm.
Bilal
Gives the same function with the different material. That was exactly it. So for me, yeah, that wood slot could be a no for me now.
Imke Du Toit
Different levels yes, of course, yes.
Okay, it's basically taking something that's a trend that's maybe too overdone and giving it a fresh new look and new perspective as you said as well. Take the same wall but just create different textures using different kinds of materials. Same concept just looks different. You wouldn't think it's even following a trend that existed, which is a great way to look at it.
Bilal
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then something is so popular, we also don't like to
use it. mean, it is like, that means it is overused and that means you're going to see it everywhere. And we like to keep in the unique side. And then we want to surprise people. Let's say you surprise the user, you surprise the guests when they come out. I never since seen this material. It's a good, I mean, good compliment for a designer to be like finding something unique. If you use something like
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm. Mm.
Absolutely, absolutely agree. Then looking at, I mean, it's a conversation that's with us, going to be with us for a long time. I still think it's good. The conversation is going to progress as we go about it. Is the fast-growing pace of technology and AI, especially within the interior design sector at the moment, AI is coming for design jobs. How do you see it changing the role of interior architects in the next five years? Will it be a revolution or a slow painful death of creativity?
Bilal
I have an opinion on this. Let me put it this way. I think AI will be a very useful tool for interior designers, for any designer's job. I think we should use it as a tool, but not as a kind of solution maker. It's not kind of I give the input and then I don't see what's the result. I just send it to the client. No, I shouldn't use it that way. For me, like...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm.
Yes.
Bilal
When I graduated from architectural school, our teachers forced us to draw by hand. And then the last year, the computer came, they said, okay, last year project, you can make it on the computer. So we make the projects faster now. And they were debating on it because the computer was there, but they said, you should learn how to draw by hand first.
Don't use computers. Even we had the opportunity, we had these CAD classes, we had these plotters. They said, no, you are not allowed to use them. So we, in the first three years, four years, we used all hand sketches and hand drawings. And then the last year they said, okay, you can use the computer. Now I'm very good at computer skills and I barely use hand sketching, to be honest. I mean, sometimes if I need to.
Imke Du Toit
Please.
Use the hands.
Yes.
Okay.
Bilal
It doesn't mean I don't know how to sketch. I know how to sketch, but the computer is faster for me. So I use AI like this. AI is for me to make things faster. But in the end, I should be controlling it. It shouldn't be like vice versa. It's not like, "Design me this room." I should give him all the data, all the input. And yes, I can see what he's developing. And I can take it as a...
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely.
Yes.
You...
Bilal
Reference is the same as like you Google some research, some images from Pinterest or from Google to figure out how that would look like. But it doesn't mean you should take it immediately. You should judge it. You should see it. And at the moment, I don't know, the AI is a very new tool. Maybe next year it will be a very creative tool. So we don't know. But still, I feel like...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm.
Definitely.
You never know.
Bilal
It will be like I'm projecting, let's say 10 years later, okay? If the technology goes at this speed, I think interior designers, people will have two choices, all right? They can hire AI interior designers, which is totally fine. I mean, it could be probably faster. They will get the results, but it will not have that soul. It's like similar. You can buy machine-made, machine-tafted carpets.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Bilal
Or you can buy a handcuffed carpet. By the look, they are saying, it is totally up to you. One has a soul. One...
Imke Du Toit
Yes. Yes.
Bilal
A person who has done that. Listen to you as a designer. Listen to clients and we are getting very close. We become like a family for any project that lasts like half a year or six months almost. We become like a family. Now I'm celebrating when they have kids. I mean, do you think AI machine can do that?
Imke Du Toit
Behind the design.
Yes.
Bilal
I call them and I check how are the things, is everything all right? Are you happy with the design? Is AI can do that? What kind of things? And I put some personal touch. I mean, AI at the moment only generates what you put in as an input. You give an input and you get the outputs. But in the end, it might be very intelligent and become like a monster thing. But again, it will not have that soul.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
No, absolutely.
Mmm.
Bilal
I hope so, I mean, that's what I want to believe.
Imke Du Toit
Yeah, it's
A difficult one. I think you were right with what you were saying as well, is that designers just need to know how to work with AI and not against AI. And as you were saying, as not to, you need the real human, the real human soul there to be able to also guide it in the way, in the direction that it is. Cause as you said as well, AI can't have those conversations, you know, with the clients and you know, that sort of thing that you need, but to know that AI is here and...
Bilal
You...
Imke Du Toit
It is a great tool to have. It's just knowing, like you said, you need to guide it, not be guided by it. And, you know, I think that's, that's vitally important.
Bilal
Now I also will
I will give you an example. So a client of mine, they brief me, they say, we want to have a carpet all over. If I was an AI, all right, I would give you all the carpet solutions and carpet options like, this is like a cot, this is bloom, or this is handcuffed. I would give all the options.
Imke Du Toit
Please.
Yes.
Bilal
But instead what I did, because I'm human and I have some experience behind, I said, why? I questioned it. Why do you want this? They said, because we don't like acoustical thing. We don't want to hear the footsteps. I said, OK, I have some solutions. We can have this special rubber between the joists and then it creates this acoustical value as carpet. Then you can finish wood flooring. You can finish with this stone flooring.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm.
Hmm.
Mm.
Bilal
This, really, actually I want wood flooring, but because of that I didn't know. I just thought the carpet is only solution. This is the difference between AI and human. So AI would give you solutions what you ask them, but they don't think, they don't question it.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, no, I think you said it exactly as it is. For sure.
Bilal
And I recently read this news, AI never says no. They never say, "I don't know." I say, "I don't know." When I don't understand you, I say, "Imke, I didn't understand you." AI doesn't do that. They always find a solution and they answer you. And sometimes, I'm sorry, but it's bullshit. They don't really say what they're talking about. And it is really annoying. People take it seriously and they are putting some...
Imke Du Toit
No.
Exactly.
Yes.
Mm. Mm.
Yes.
Bilal
Statement that they look like true. So we should be very careful when we read the AI answers.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
I guess that's also possibly where it comes down to that misconception that it will work if it comes from AI as well. Like as you were saying as well, you need to be able to have an open conversation and to question. Like you say, AI doesn't question, doesn't talk back, just puts the options out there. And whether it's going to work or not is, you know, is obviously the question. So completely understand.
I mean, we've basically touched on the next question about has B-Studio dabbled with AI and digital tools to enhance your design processes, or is that just another way to pretend you're working faster? And I know you've touched base on it already that you do use AI and digital tools and that yes, it does create more efficiency. Makes work go a lot faster. But do you think it does enhance your design process or is it merely a form of being able to work faster?
Bilal
Of course.
Yeah, I mean, I cannot lie about it. I mean, I'm using AI. I am using it as a tool, as I'm using the computer. I'm using the mouse. I'm not drawing by hand anymore to speed up the process. Even like, let's say I for the admin work, like reviewing these service agreements. And I will give you an example how I use it. So that will be also an example for the other listeners who are designers.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Bilal
I designed a space and I have a beautiful staircase. It has a unique joiner detail. I put this image input into the AI. I said, find me five manufacturers in London who can make this design. And he sorted me all these companies and I checked their websites. It was exactly the style I'm looking for. So I don't, I didn't need to really search for like yellow pages and look for the joineries.
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Is...
Bilal
Who make that look. So he gave me, he understood the style, image reading, like they understand the style and then eliminated all other options. I use such things. It's really speed up my process.
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
Yes.
That's a great example as well to give our listeners as well. And it's really about how to use the AI tools to your advantage as well, as you say and what understanding when those processes come into play and when it really is a fantastic tool to use. Do you think interior design education has caught up with the technological age or are we still stuck teaching students to draw by hand still and avoid the evil of computers? Or do you think it's really moved into the technology space?
Bilal
Well, I'm not really following up the latest educational details, but what I see from, because we receive many job applications, so I see juniors applying us, I see their, I mean, I see their qualifications, I don't reply them all, but I always open the email, see, and I usually try to respond like, hey, improve this better. I don't have any openings, but.
Imke Du Toit
Sure.
Hmm.
Yes.
Bilal
If you do this, that will be beneficial. I try to give advice. And what I see there, technical specification, technical skills are actually getting much better now. I mean, comparing to other years, they know many tools, they know many of the software, which is great. I think, I don't know if the schools have followed these new trends, but I think the students did. I don't know. That's what I observed.
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Okay. Yes.
Yes, I can understand that looking at all the different portfolios that come through, you know, come through your desk to your desk as well, looking at that, I can imagine that you can see the differences over the years. And at the end of the day, I think you as young up and coming designers too or any of the designers as well, to be able to embrace it, it is here, the tools are there for you to use. And I guess it's always good to be able to...
Be able to do things by hand as well as be able to do everything else technically using technology as well and being able to do both is obviously, you know, would that be the absolute winner for within that.
Bilal
Well, sometimes...
You design something and when you visit the site, the builder is going to be there and you don't have a computer or printer to make a design and you need to sketch the wall. So I have a very thick pen, I have to sketch to the wall. That's what I mean. You need that tool. You should find a solution at that moment. You cannot just say...
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Bilal
Okay, guys, wait for me for a couple of days. I will go back to office and design, make a CGI and send it to you. You have to find the solution. You have to draw a detail and very simply so that they can understand. It should be simple enough today to understand. That kind of skill you should actually keep as a base.
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
Absolutely.
So, yes.
And the mindset of being solution-orientated and I guess it comes back to being able to manage and to balance both skills. You know, quite efficiently and well, as you said, find a solution, be solution-orientated because the project's not going to wait for you.
Bilal
Yeah, I
I think today's summary would be like yin and yang as a balance. We're talking about like balance of everything. So you're right.
Imke Du Toit
If we're looking at trends and clients and where it's all going within the design industry, what's one global design movement you think London interior designers are completely ignoring and why should they pay more attention to it before it's too late?
Bilal
Boom.
Well, I feel like in London, this renewable energy and sustainability is being ignored a bit.
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Bilal
There are no like, I mean...
Compared to New York or LA that I have some connections there and then people are more giving attention to those kinds of trends. It's not a trend actually, that's kind of mentality is I wouldn't call this like a trend, just an approach, the design approach. That is kind of, I think, not been used or preferred in London. And there are a couple of reasons for that. I mean, the first is like,
Imke Du Toit
So.
Hmm.
Yes.
Bilal
The cityscape is not suitable for it probably. The houses are kind of like there's a leaseholder and freeholder stuff like I still don't get why there's such a thing. The guy owns the space but the bricks are owned by something else. So then you try to let's say in my last project I want to have this let's say...
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
Yes.
Bilal
The solar panels on the roof. Said let's make a solar panel so we save some energy and then in the future proof. The freeholder didn't permit that. Who's the freeholder? I mean you pay millions of pounds to own this space but you don't really own it. You own this air inside the bricks. The bricks are owned by somebody. I really don't get this concept. So this is really...
Imke Du Toit
Mm.
Yes.
Well...
Cheers.
Yes.
Bilal
Not preventing some decisions. And especially this kind of renewable energy and sustainability decisions are based on because you need to impact the fabric, the envelope, and that is usually owned by the freeholder. And sometimes freeholder and leaseholder are the same person, but at that time, and maybe they don't prefer it. But what else I can tell is,
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
So.
Mm.
Bilal
Yeah, I mean...
Yeah, as a BE studio, we prefer this minimalist and contemporary style. That's not really... In general speaking, the London people prefer, but we find our niche and whoever prefers that style, they find us already. We want to stand there and if they like our style, they approach us already.
Imke Du Toit
Yeah.
Bilal
We want to keep that.
Imke Du Toit
Yes,
No, absolutely. You must see so many different design movements from all over the globe where you were as well as we were talking about the different spaces as well. I'm very sure that the design movements are vastly different in some spaces as well as the same and similar in others as well.
Bilal
But that's normal as well. We are living in a modern world. It's kind of more philosophical thing now and we are going beyond the interior design. You know what I mean? We have personal life, have work life, and we have one persona, one different persona for friends. And then we have a persona for the office. Have a different... Ideally, you should...
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
So.
Yes, absolutely.
Yes. Yes.
Mm. Constantly wearing different faces all the time.
Bilal
Exactly. So ideally we should be one in an ideal world, but this modern life, I mean, us, you should have different personas. But a home is the only space. You don't need to lighten. I think you should be yourself. You should take your mask off. You should clean your makeups. You know what I mean? So you should be you.
Imke Du Toit
Hmm.
So.
Yes.
Hmm. Hmm.
Yes.
Bilal
For us, we should find as a designer, who you really are and what you really want. What do you really want? Not because it's a trend, not because it is... People would like, just because you like it, just because you are happy with it.
Imke Du Toit
Mm-hmm. No, absolutely. And it needs to speak to you personally on a personal basis. And I think a lot of the time, I think that also then comes down to everything with social media as well as that sometimes we do things for, I wouldn't say, I don't want to say approval, but wanting someone to also like it. I think sometimes we also, you need to create spaces for you.
Bilal
Yeah.
Imke Du Toit
And you're the one that's, you, the client is the one that's going to be staying there. You know, it's not from the other way around. If we look a little bit at the FCI touch and reflections, if you were to collaborate with FCI London, what kind of design story would you want to tell?
Bilal
But, ciao.
Well, I mean...
For us, every project has a unique story, so...
Each project has its own narrative.
Imke Du Toit
So.
Bilal
If I collaborate with FCI London, I would like FCI to be part of this story.
Imke Du Toit
Looking back on your global design journey, what was the one moment that truly taught you about leadership in design and was it as painful as it sounds? You know, designing and leadership all at the same time and your global journey. What was the one moment that truly taught you about leadership within the design field?
Bilal
Well, I was working on a hotel project in New York. It was an MGM National Harbor project. I worked on that project for four years. It's a long time, like four years of your life. And we were doing this interior design of all the rooms and some public spaces like lobby and ballroom, et cetera. And the...
Imke Du Toit
Draw. Tears.
Yes.
Bilal
Builder decided to supply all these fitted furniture from out of the country, which is from Barcelona. It was the shape of the building was already angular. So each room already was not repeating. So we have like 20 room types and different levels. Okay, ideally, if everything is like laser cut, we should have...
Let’s say 20 room types and each room has its own joinery. But in reality, that concrete is sometimes like from the formwork, it is like five centimeters narrower, sometimes this side. So we end up like having 300 room types and we have to develop this. Exactly. And this, because it's going to be manufactured in a different country,
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mmm.
So.
I could imagine.
Bilal
It is double, we should double-check everything. That was a big challenge. And I said, okay, no more. I mean, this kind of decision affects our job, but we succeeded very well. Increased the tolerances and put some tolerance pieces that would be flexible and cut on size, but those kinds of... That was a big challenge on that project.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
Mm.
Hmm.
I can imagine, especially with a project of that magnitude and of that scope and not every room is different and leaning to a different side, a different angle. I can understand why the project would have taken as long as it did as well, just in terms of making sure that the precision is there and making 100% sure that everyone's on the right track and on the right space. Do you think that's probably one of the most challenging projects you've had, would you say?
Bilal
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know if I should say this, but that was a project I purchased the sofa and that was the first time I haven't like, it was fitting the room perfectly, but I didn't really consider how we're going to take off the sofa into the room in that level. And it didn't pass through the hallway. So...
Imke Du Toit
Mmm.
Bilal
I totally didn't consider that because it was wide and I thought they would come in pieces, but they said, no, it's a fixed model. The sofa literally didn't fit into the corridor. What I ended up like, I literally dismantled the window, like it was a fixed window and I had to put it through the window. That was like one of the challenges I had. I have many, many stories. I mean, it's...
Imke Du Toit
Okay.
Mmm.
No.
Cool.
Bilal
It's kind of lessons learned. In the end, it's a nice photo, but we all have these failures and lessons learned. Once I had, I wanted to have this big, grand ceramic tile to be one piece delivered on site. And there was a forklift on the second level. I was trying to locate it and the operator said I have a...
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
No, absolutely.
Yes.
Yes.
Bilal
The tile guy said I have a height phobia, I cannot go into that forklift and I, myself, ended up like going in the forklift. I found myself operating a forklift to carry this big tile because the guy has a phobia. So kind of funny stories, yeah.
Imke Du Toit
Yes.
You
No, but that's, I guess, at the end of the day, it's all about, it's the experience that is about the stories. Every project is different. Nothing is ever the same. And as you said earlier and throughout the podcast today, you know, it's about being adaptable and solution-orientated, simply taking, you know, having to, you know, find another solution, removing a window to get that piece in there, you know. And those memories are fantastic. And it gives extra, also I think extra charm to the place at the end of the day and to the spaces that were created.
Bilal
You.
Exactly.
Yes,
Yes, sir.
Imke Du Toit
It really
Just resonates with you as well.
Bilal
That was the stressful moment for that moment with the client. But now we are joking about it and laughing about it a lot.
Imke Du Toit
So
Exactly, exactly. And you made it work. You found the solution, which at the end of the day is all that matters is trying to make sure that that end product gets to the point that it needs to get to and the goal is achieved.
Bilal
That's right.
Imke Du Toit
Thank you so much, Bilal. This is the end of our interview for today. It was absolutely wonderful having you. And thank you so much again for sharing your journey and your philosophy and artistry behind your work. It's really inspiring as well to hear how your global experiences also continue to shape your vision for sustainable modern design. And we really look forward to seeing what's next for Bee Studio.
Bilal
Thank you.
Thank
Thank you, Imke. Very nice to meet you and looking forward to meeting you in person in London.
Imke Du Toit
Absolutely, absolutely, definitely. And to all our lovely listeners and watchers, thank you so much for joining us on the FCI London podcast. Keep following, keep designing and again, join us for more insights from London's most influential luxury designers. I'm Imke de Toi and thank you so much for listening.
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